A Classic Major Flaw/DFQ DailyKos Thread (with a Major Flaw Outing)
I didn't "reveal" anything, I asked a question (5+ / 3-)
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and I expected the answer to be "no." I mean, how likely is it that someone you were arguing with in the morning magically appears in front of you in the afternoon. It was only her response which led me to believe it true. And before you get carried away with Randy's anonymity. I made it clear then and it remains true that I have no interest in outing anyone, particularly Randy as that would involve outing myself as well. Find another cause.
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HR FOR LINKING SOMEONES REAL NAME (6+ / 0-)
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You do NOT link someone's real name in one of your comments.
NEVER.
Now I apologized for the "bottles" and said it will NOT happen again.
How dare you?
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 12:33:19 PM PST
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I'm placing this reply here (21+ / 0-)
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for no particular reason dave, I hope you don't mind.
I hope folks won't take too much exception to this, but please, please, for the love of god, can everybody that is involved in this weird little drama / flamefest please knock it the fuck off?
I'm sick and tired of seeing MF and kestrel and randgrithr and everyone else fighting non-stop, trying to get each other banned or something for a bunch of old slights. I mean really, how many times are you all going to rehash this shit?
You know this advice is good: just stop.
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The stopping (5+ / 0-)
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has to come from the starters.
"Bush legacy", my ass. Criminals don't have "legacies". Criminals have RECORDS.
by kestrel9000 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:05:26 PM PST
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I think (12+ / 0-)
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the stopping needs to simultaneously happen with everyone in this thread. It's not good for anyone.
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we've tried (3+ / 0-)
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two weeks ago I told braveheartdc i wouldn't respond to his and he agreed.
His caveat was that he would only respond to "defend his name"
Guess what Happened?
I didn't respond or mention him at all
that lasted a day or two
boom -60 comments in a row from him in response to me.
Many of us have tried.
Major flaw cares more about his vendettas and is willing to promote a right wing nut over people he is more politically aligned with. that's a huge problem
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:13:50 PM PST
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There's no need to go further in this thread but (3+ / 0-)
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it's too late to pretend that nothing happened. dave is correct about one thing, admins are gonna have to make a call. This shit can't continue.
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fair enough MF (7+ / 0-)
but really, I think you should decline to respond to posts by kestrel, dave, randgrithr, etc. And I think they should do the same for you. It will likely be better for everyone.
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I haven't responded to kestrel9000... (2+ / 0-)
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avoided responding to Randy despite this bit of recklessness and have only sporadically responded to dave here. It should be clear that dave entered this thread here solely to uprate a "Mann Coulter" comment against my d0nut. You're as good at reading the playing field as anyone at this site. I don't believe that a group ignore is gonna solve this one.
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you outed "bottles" not me (1+ / 0-)
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I posted your comment 3 times.
you also linked to Rand's real name.
I apologized for that comment already 5 times notwithstanding that I KNEW you had outed it.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:30:14 PM PST
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Then (0+ / 0-)
stop it.
You are the fucking shit disturber.
You want it to stop?
Then cut your ass fucking act."Bush legacy", my ass. Criminals don't have "legacies". Criminals have RECORDS.
by kestrel9000 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:53:58 PM PST
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Well I, for one, (4+ / 0-)
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am done in this thread.
Hasta."Bush legacy", my ass. Criminals don't have "legacies". Criminals have RECORDS.
by kestrel9000 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:06:08 PM PST
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we're also seeing the whole Major Flaw posse expo (4+ / 0-)
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exposed
Now they come in as a crew and uprate his comment in which he links to the real name of a user, a huge no no.
Maybe they will all get nuked. It's absurd already.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:16:20 PM PST
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amen, davefromqueens... posse indeed. (4+ / 0-)
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sometimes of late, i come into "hidden comments" to see the usual ballbatters going around picking the legs off spiders, fucking with people they don't agree with, etc... and i see that - finally - all the usual suspects are here in a beautiful firing squad. "1... 2... 3... shoot!" and we'll all be the better.
here's what i know about you davefromqueens - you aren't part of any mob, and unlike them, you actually talk about politics. thanks for being you, and hanging in there. this is absolutely absurd... and all i can glean out of it is - "voila is bottles?" no. fucking. way.
Accepting human beings from all walks of life since 1963.
by jj24 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:37:31 PM PST
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thank you for recognizing (3+ / 0-)
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and agreed it's a posse and it's good that for every one of their posse there will be people fighting back against it. It's a mob mentality.
And thanks for recognizing that hey I put my views out there.
I've spoken on literally thousands of different issues. I have ideas, some are good, some turn out not to be so good but they are ideas.
Health care, the environment, education, taxes, the economy, Iraq, Iran, (and my view is not in total alignment with most people here) affirmative action, abortion, stem cell research, religion, the minimum wage, workplace safety, constitutional law, our criminal justice system etc... (I can go on for pages) I tell people what my views are.
All some of these people do all day is spend several hours looking to attack people personally. Where are their views on issues?
Most people see what's happening here.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:46:23 PM PST
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it seems to be the hallmark of the hall monitor - (3+ / 0-)
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you almost NEVER find them talking about politics. they definitely don't have any time for that. they go around, may i say - stalking members and ganging up when there's a hint of something that offends them.
and because this is a community-based site, it's really easy for them to silence people when they have 5-6 swooping down against one genuine person with a statement.
aren't personal attacks supposedly HR-worthy? and if most people see what's happening, why aren't we HRing the hell out of them? do we need our anti-posse? lol
i always figured these sites are our only real "freedom of assembly" places to go. and to the point where this is a "free speech zone" (and yeah, i know acutely that it's not), it needs to be here for everyone willing to share a genuine opinion of their own.
i don't mind disagreeing with a POV, but i need to hear real people say what they really think... the more educated or thoughtful or bright, the better.
thanks again, for contributing THAT, instead of... well.. what you're fighting against here.
Accepting human beings from all walks of life since 1963.
by jj24 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:00:42 PM PST
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Yes we may need an anti posse (0+ / 0-)
but remind ourselves never to take the traits of this posse.
Here's another clincher on braveheartdc which has been sent to adm.
1739 comments from the time he came here til 2 weeks ago.
I've made a bet with adm. that 85 percent either a)pertain to me b) are in my diaries or c) in my threads or response to my comments.
I'm willing to bet that 1500 (not a typo) comments fit that bill. It's the over/under in Vegas terms.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 05:08:49 PM PST
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I don't mind (0+ / 0-)
and I've asked the administration to step in and try to resolve all this.
The issue of BraveheartDC is simple. I've sent the links, they can see over 1000 stalking comments from him designed to incite and interrupt. Plus he admitted to being a sockpocket.
The problems with Major Flaw can be worked out.
As for me, if anyone has any questions about my nic of 3 weeks more than 2 years ago, who I spoke with in CT who had no problem with me establishing davefromqueens in August of 2006, the understanding of who I am and things I've done in my life for Democrats with proof of 45 LTES, 50 newspaper columns, a neighbor of mine who posts here, a professor of mine who posts here, what members of Congress I've volunteered for, or me putting my ass on the line numerous times in front of thousands of Promise Keepers in the 1990s or 2000 insanitized RWers in a bookstore who most would love to kill me merely for being a Democrat, that discussion can be had too. Oh and when I'm done publishing my approximate 800 page book next year on progressive politics and solutions for America, please buy it :)
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:09:22 PM PST
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please (9+ / 0-)
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listen to taylormattd, dave, and STOP.
That is all. Thank you.
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I rest my case. (1+ / 0-)
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The Lone Wolf, climbing up trees, pulling down hate...and running with 0'Biden in '08! Protect the Polar Bear...they need the tip of the iceberg.
by BraveheartDC on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:14:51 PM PST
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you need (10+ / 0-)
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to knock it off too.
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ask this question (0+ / 0-)
Why would major flaw uprate that comment?
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:22:25 PM PST
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who cares dave. (11+ / 0-)
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Really. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and let this shit go.
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Point taken.... (0+ / 0-)
You remind me of Moe, clunking Larry and Curly's heads together, saying "Knock it off you knuckleheads!" :)
Again, point taken.
The Lone Wolf, climbing up trees, pulling down hate...and running with 0'Biden in '08! Protect the Polar Bear...they need the tip of the iceberg.
by BraveheartDC on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 02:04:18 PM PST
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Is this amazing or what? (5+ / 0-)
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And I work with kindergarteners.
Guys, please - aim your anger toward our COMMON enemy - McCain!
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that may be but administration must resolve this. (0+ / 0-)
but we are way beyond that.
The bottom lines are
- BraveheartDC hopefully gets autobanned in the next few days now that the administrators will have an opportunity to look over all the stalking comments and his most egregious hits.
2, Majorflaw is a different issue. If we want to apply the rules precisely to him, then he should be autobanned for linking to randi's real name without permission.
- As for Major flaw outing bottles other nic or what I thought was two nics at once, that's a mistake on his part AND a mistake on my part.
What braveheartDC did is called cyberstalking. Now I don't think this is a site that wants to tolerate something like that.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:32:00 PM PST
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of course cyberstalking is wrong (5+ / 0-)
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but I'm no way getting involved more than just making this general comment.
Good luck to the admins sorting this out
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Looks like she "outed" herself. (3+ / 0-)
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Seeing that she put that in her diary, on this site.
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Well, congratulations. (3+ / 0-)
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You found a user's real name in a forgotten two-comment diary and chose to reveal it when it was convenient for you. Interesting that you had the time and patience to carefully sift through all the postings and diaries until you found what you wanted.
How is that any different from what was done to droogie?
by raboof on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:19:53 PM PST
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I linked to a diary that the member in question (6+ / 0-)
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posted here. Good luck convincing anyone that that constitutes an outing.
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No kidding (0+ / 0-)
And bigdave really needs to stop repeating the lie that I somehow admitted to being a sock puppet for Baby Doc (which I didn't, and which I'm not). Never did any such thing...if he has a quote and link where I made such an admission, I'd love to see it. Until then, just add these two to the dave lies.
The Lone Wolf, climbing up trees, pulling down hate...and running with 0'Biden in '08! Protect the Polar Bear...they need the tip of the iceberg.
by BraveheartDC on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:43:28 PM PST
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t-matt's right. (5+ / 0-)
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There's nothing more that needs to be done here. Based on my understanding of the site rules dave is done. No need to argue and no further points to be made. You couldn't possibly expose dave any more than you already have. Just chill and let the process play out.
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wanna bet? (0+ / 0-)
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:57:06 PM PST
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Agreed, Counselor (0+ / 0-)
Now, if only there was a bailiff to listen into the jury room :)
The Lone Wolf, climbing up trees, pulling down hate...and running with 0'Biden in '08! Protect the Polar Bear...they need the tip of the iceberg.
by BraveheartDC on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 01:58:36 PM PST
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then how, (3+ / 0-)
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under "site rules," are you not done as well?
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Of course there's an answer to that but this (0+ / 0-)
isn't the place for it. However let's assume for a bit that there isn't an answer. I guess it would mean that the moment bottles complains about me I'll be right out the door with dave. I'm really cool with submitting on the record here.
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i don't (2+ / 0-)
understand why it should depend on a "complaint." I don't see that in the FAQ. Do you? What I do see is that your comment outed this user first, and outed the user even further than dfq did.
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You are correct, you don't understand. (0+ / 0-)
You're missing something very obvious. And that's where I'm gonna leave it.
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that's (4+ / 0-)
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sufficiently mysterious. ; )
I'll leave with a historical observation. And that is that if you review the roster of the most zealous and indefatigable troll-hunters who roamed about this site two-and-a-half years ago, you will find that either they're no longer here, or they've retired from the field. Dave is a goofball who may very well have blundered into a ban without anyone's help. But I don't see why you felt it your mission to frog-march him there. You do some good work here, Major. But you also, on occasion, over-step.
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That's a reasonable comment. (1+ / 0-)
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review the roster of the most zealous and indefatigable troll-hunters
I don't consider myself a "troll hunter" but rather part of this site's quality control. Both of the individuals we have discussed here have a constitutional inability to handle criticism combined with deep seated paranoia--which manifests in absurd accusations against other site members as well as abuse. It should never have gotten this far. Both of them should have been straightened out before this year.
I don't see why you felt it your mission to frog-march him there.
Did you see what happened here? dave wandered into an otherwise unremarkable thread solely for the purpose of uprating a "Mann Coulter" comment against my d0nut. When asked by someone else to pick it up he did, but not without taking a swipe at me. How did I lead him into addressing a member by another name? Both individuals make no pretense of playing by the rules and between the two of them have dropped an awful lot of bad d0nuts on me and others. As aforesaid, this should have been dealt with a long time ago but it wasn't. It's a question of whether we want this site to play by a set of common rules or a wild west style free for all. The same folks who I found shooting straight when I got here are still doing so and several of them are involved in this thread. Read the playing field, and that means Recs as well as comments.
There was a funny moment the evening of the Great Ratings Yank last year. People from each camp who had been neutered assumed that I must have been as well. Each camp saw that I wasn't gonna shade my ratings in favor of their candidate and assumed it was because I was supporting another candidate here. It didn't occur to them that I was simply and consistently applying the rules that we TUs had been discussing for years. That fact still appears to escape some folks. It's a question of what we want this site to be and that can only be decided upstairs. The current wisdom proffered by some is that as long as someone is generally on our side it doesn't matter how they conduct themselves here. I disagree, but that will be decided above my pay grade.
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no, you need to be straightened out (1+ / 0-)
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I don't consider myself a "troll hunter" but rather part of this site's quality control.
Who appointed you part of this site's quality control? If there's 1 person here most responsible for a lack of quality, it's you. So if an adm. says you are part of "quality control" I'll accept that but you are not listed anywyere.
Both of the individuals we have discussed here have a constitutional inability to handle criticism combined with deep seated paranoia
Well I will speak for myself. Handle criticism? Criticism is natural. Why? There is NO person here that agrees with me 100% of the time and that's ok. In fact it's very healthy. And hundreds if not thousands of times, people have offered criticisms of me and we've had pleasant and civil discussions here 99% of the time with other users. People can look at my history b/c I've had tens of thousands of comments and everybody has disagreed with me at some point. But with me it's civil except in 2 cases and for VERY good reason. The problem is you not me. You cuss constantly, turn people off by the day, are the most criticized person here, and you protected a right wing racist cyberstalking nut who implied that Obama killed his own grandmother.
As for the other person, when someone posts over 1000 comments and more than 85% of them are aimed at 1 diarist, that's a cyberstalker. There is no excuse for protecting him but one possible explanation -- Maybe you are here to turn people off on purpose to hurt Kos, hurt this site, hurt business. Maybe it's not an accident.
--which manifests in absurd accusations against other site members as well as abuse.
You are projecting yourself onto me.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:40:52 PM PST
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got to be the biggest lie of all time (1+ / 0-)
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reread that.
For you to claim you consistently apply the rules of this site is an all time whopper.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:52:03 PM PST
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Nail & Head (0+ / 0-)
nice aim, blueness
"Problems can't be solved by the same level of thinking that created them" Einstein
by Brecht on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 08:00:07 PM PST
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i'd like to hear the real answer. (0+ / 0-)
Accepting human beings from all walks of life since 1963.
by jj24 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 04:47:15 PM PST
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Major flaw outed bottles not me (0+ / 0-)
And I was wrong to make that comment and I've apologized for it but let's be factual here.
Major Flaw outed bottles.
And now he links to Randgrthrs real name in this thread and that whole posse uprates him.
This is ridiculous and I'm glad that posse showed up b/c MajorFlaw's behavior at this site needs to be reviewed.
Oh, maybe I'm totally right that MajorFlaw has been a Turnoff Troll the entire time and he wouldn't mind seeing the whole ship sunk. His comment below seems to indicate such.
I shall not rest until right wing conservatives are 4th party gadflies limited to offering minor corrections on legislation once or twice a year.
by davefromqueens on Thu Aug 28, 2008 at 03:18:58 PM PST
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Dave, is soapblox merely the software that makes a domain have a DailyKos like appearance?
I see that FreeSpeechZone is powered by soapblox and that ugog has soapblox in its url. Sorry if this is a dumb question.
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http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/1/9/114723/9386
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Thanks.
So it's just a coincidence? Maybe it's like Kos having CIA ties, it's a head scratcher with no where to go with it.
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I do not know whats a coincidence and whats not. For all I know you are with the cia , or maybe I am with the cia and I don't know it. Its a crazy world we live in.
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Unbelievable. Two days running and a majorflaw search comes up with two days ago. It would seem he is really gone.
And you have been the leader in this expose. I think it just got too hot for kos to handle by ignoring
I have been touring Ayn Rand and Objectivist sites the past few days and nights. How similar all the infighting seems. I went through this on Utne Cafe at one time and stayed away for years before my time at dkos. At Utne we fought back hard as a group against a group. No ratings so it was no holds barred. The Randians are intellectually deficient though and get very boring with their questions and posts.
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For fans of Dave's, I wanted to pass along the following I got from his sister this morning via Facebook:
"I see that you are listed as a friend of Dave’s. I am his sister Michelle. Dave passed away suddenly yesterday. We are unaware of the details as of yet and are awaiting the Medical Examiner’s report but it seems that it may have been a medical issue such as a heart attack. As we (his sister Karen and I) were unaware of whom to contact for him, we are sending this message to the people listed on his Facebook account. The funeral will be early in the week and we should have details later today."
We've checked on this and it's true: my friend Dave Weintraub has passed away. I didn't want his blog not to reflect his passing. {ProfJonathan}
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If true, am deeply saddened by the loss of Dave. He was an asset unlike any other for progressive voices on the other. I will miss him, and I just began to get to know him through his blog. He was an excellently principled person and we should all admire his tenacity for staying for the right thing to happen.
I also have my suspicions aroused about Dave's death. He was directly confronting one of the most vicious and single mindedly poisonous characters I have witnessed in my 21 years of internet/bbs participation. I have every reason to believe that In Real Live Major Flaw was an equally dangerous character. I wish that there be close scrutiny into the discovery of his death any investigation not rule out foul play. Whereas Dave may not seem like the kind to make any enemies, he probably did have one who has shown to go to extreme excesses at least in the Internet domain.
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This is very sad to hear. Prayers for you and Dave's family and other friends.
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There are accruing comments at two diaries about Dave that I feel should be linked here.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/15/23115/1477/671/698026
http://www.freespeechzoneblog.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2939#58495 (comments are more relevant here)
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Testing
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Susan Something is worried about you. And I just got online and don't know why.
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My dear Abbey,
I take it by now you've read the post by Jonathan Ezor a few posts above yours. Apparently Mr. Ezor is a friend of Dave's but I've seen no way to confirm that as yet. Dave hasn't posted for a while though and that is highly unusual considering what's happened at dkos as well as all the concern about him tonight on freespeechzoneblog.com, and dailykos.
I'm going to try posting here once more-I think I needed to turn off a protection application in order to make my post go through.
Mr. Ezor,
I'm shocked to hear this news. I owe Dave an email, I last got one from him on Friday evening, and this has been a very eventful few days in Dave's determined mission to correct both personal and political outrages at dailykos.
It would not be outlandish to consider his enemies would pull a prank like this, the timing is most damning. But it is unusual that Dave has not been around yet to correct this info or to post, or to reply to my email.
Mr. Ezor, if you have access to his email acct., would you be so kind to email my by replying to the post I sent tonight, and perhaps letting me know how to contact you or his family? It's very difficult to believe this is true-Dave is young and seemingly healthy and always talking about the future and his plans.
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I was not close enough to Dave to have access to any of his e-mail accounts, but a colleague at Touro called Dave's sister and the situation appears to be true. When/if I get more info., I'll try to post it here. {Jonathan Ezor}
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Thanks so much Jonathan. I'd attend the funeral tomorrow if I weren't 3000 miles away. Many of us feel very close to Dave in that way that is hard to explain to friends and family offline. Many of the people that he worked so hard to speak for are not on dailykos, or even aware necessarily of what this man was doing and going through in order to expose the dark side of dailykos. He wanted people not to be hurt anymore or treated so unfairly. He wanted his liberal political interests to be represented in good faith, and for the members of dailykos and the media to open their eyes and see what is going on there, and DO something about it. Tough crowd. People have a lot of hope, time, friendships and emotion invested in being part of dailykos, and they don't want to see what has really been right in front of them for years. Dave understood that persistence was required, and most humans don't have that kind of stamina, or ability to put with so much (frequently vicious) resistence. "Sometimes it's lonely being right", I wrote him. But I didn't need to tell him that or worry for his state of mind, it seemed. He was one self-motivated, outgoing, fireball of a great guy.
I do hope you or someone will post here once it is known what happened to him.
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How I found Dave's site was I had the same kind of abuse done to me by the same people at Kos.
So not as a routine thing, but every several months I would Google to see if these people finally got a comeuppance.
It was in the last search that I came upon Dave's plight, and I could totally agree with the situation as he described it at Kos.
Now that this bad internet news is solidifying as a true thing, I just think it's all tragic. And it reminds me of that one in Missouri where the teenage girl did herself in because of mistreatment via the internet.
I don't know what happened last weekend, but it is a terrible shame that someone whose motives were so good had to spend his late days fighting something on the internet that should have never been tolerated to start.
Hopefully none of that contributed to whatever was the final fate. Hopefully.
RIP Dave.
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I have been reading the Daily Kos Diary regarding this sad news and I have to say, there are some unanswered questions. I mean , we all remember what happened to that girl who killed herself after she was bullied on My Space , so don't tell me that Internet bullies from Daily Kos cannot cause Davids death. I know how they are. They are vicious and evil and you know what ? If the family wants to file a Law Suit against the people who raised Daves stress level to the point where it killed him, I say they should. I will be a witness and I will testify. I know what they did to David. I know how hard they harrassed him and made everything look like it was his fault. I am reading them right now try to pretend they blameless while they spit on his grave before his body is even cold in the ground. I am reading them right now. They are all there. They have black souls and are filled with evil. May they rot in HELL for what they did to Dave.
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I quite simply cannot believe this.
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Dave has passed.
I have just spoken with the Medical Examinor's office, and there is a person by his name that is there.
Rest in peace Dave. You're one of those unique and gifted people I am glad to have gotten to learn some about. And peace to your family.
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I was a "fan" of Dave's, but he was my friend too, online. Thanks for relaying the information, Jonathan. This is devastating.
My heartfelt condolences to his sisters Karen and Michelle and to Mr. Weintraub, and all of Dave's friends and family.
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I am very sorry to learn of Dave's passing. I would also like to point out that there are over 200,000 users on DailyKos... the vast majority of us were not involved in whatever happened to cause a conflict and a tirade and a banning... most of us are/were just trying to change America for the better. I do remember Dave's initial "bookstore showdown" diaries re: Hannity and the others, and those were terrific. I am sorry that things went wrong after that, and I'm sure that even in the heat of conflict Dave felt he was doing his part to change America for the better as well. Peace.
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I just got the news...To Sophia, I am sorry to hear of Dave's passing.
I read him, recced him and got along alright with him.
My condolences to his friends and family.
boilerman10
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If this is all confirmed and true, I want to add that it is extremely sad.
We won't know if the stresses added by the Daily Kos harassers that Dave mentioned contributed to his condition, and at this point it would only matter to law enforcement.
The sad fact is that someone who made such an effort to live the First Amendment and be politically active, a true American, was called to God sooner than so many posters around the 'net feel is fair.
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Dave's sister has started a Facebook group to share stories about him. It's at:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56493685162
For those that are still reading DKos (or who enjoy irony, I suppose), I've written a tribute to Dave there. You may read it at:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/2/16/9219/71712/585/698104
{ProfJonathan}
{ProfJonathan}
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Who is
"Thrust Blowtorch Palin"
Thrust Blowtorch Palin wrote:
You are truly a sick fuck. Badly in need of electroshock therapy.
Someone needs to introduce your skull to a five iron.
If anyone can track this threat back to the person who made it, I beg you to do so.
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I merely have some opinions to offer. I do not mean to cause any extra distress.
I believe an autopsy should be done. I am not a conspiracy theorist. If I had to guess, Dave's death was natural, and it is a coincidence that he had enemies in real life, whose animosity towards him must have been reaching a boiling point. Dave did pose a threat to certain political consultants and the DailyKos' credibility.
If Bottles is who Dave said he is, then that person appears to have admitted to being a sexual predator. If MajorFlaw is who Dave said he is, then that person was in close vicinity to himself.
I think Dave would want the truth to come out no matter what it is. I do believe that Dave uncovered an extensive astroturfing racket taking place at the DailyKos. I am not a lawyer, so I do not understand what if any crimes happened.
But make no mistake about the following. Markos Zuniga has been exposed by a vast number of folks on the internet, not just Dave. In fact, it appears Dave was late to realising that DailyKos has been at a minimum gamed and at worst rigged from the top.
I believe Dave would want the media and others to investigate what he had uncovered.
I have tried to read through the various threads elsewhere at DailyKos and FreeSpeechZone, but I don't see much more than noise. I also see a lot of people making Dave out to be something he was not. It amazes me how often others feel the need to offer diagnoses of mental illness, simply because a brave soul like Dave was unafraid to confront power structures.
There is a pdf on this site with over 400 pages taken from the UGOG domain, in which it is clear that Fingerit and his posse were manipulating democratic processes at one of the most influential blogs on the whole internet.
I don't believe Dave was murdered, and I don't want to cause the family any more pain than they are now experiencing. Nonetheless, I do recommend that people do go through all of Dave's proof, also through the hard drive, and piece this thing together.
I believe that Dave was a hero. I believe that Fingerit needs to be investigated. Maybe he has broken no laws, but I would be very surprised if he wasn't being paid by Markos Zuniga or even someone outside DailyKos to do what he did.
Even if no crimes have taken place, I believe that Dave's memory would be best served, if the story he uncovered was shared with the world.
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I have believed majorflaw was CIA for 2 years. I think that's what protected him. I think his mission was to bring the site down. He has ruined it. And I fear Dave did not die a natural death.
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You're entitled to your opinions. I think it is more likely that he would be rogue FBI. It is illegal for the CIA to spy on us.
What MajorFlaw was doing was clearly cointelpro-like operations. Hopefully intrepid reporters and citizens will work on this. I've emailed a tv investigative reporter I know along with a freelance journalist. Both are fairly knew to the internet. It took a while, but both are starting to see the possibility that the internet as a mechanism for democracy is being perverted.
I think given the fact that Dave had such vicious enemies, ones with political power, that there might have been foul play. I don't think the Michael Connell crash was anything but an accident, but that didn't stop the Speedway Bomber's network from trumping up that conspiracy theory.
I am a social theorist. Theory is good. The social sciences are not equivalent to the scientific ones. I don't think you are out of line to suggest at least the possibility that there was foul play. At a minimum, the cyberstalkers added stress to Dave's life. I have been through the same exact thing. For real.
Cointelpro worked to drive potential leaders to depression and emotional instability. I thought Dave had it all together. But take it from someone who can also prove to have been cyberstalked and who also believes in social justice, saving the planet, and who hates hypocrisy. Taking on a pack of fakes does wear one down.
The fact that Fingerit lives in New York makes me think there should be an autopsy, an investigation, and at minimum a full disclosure of what these "political consultants" were really up to.
One thing I found shocking was how Fingerit has admitted to pulling the same astroturfing stunts at Democratic Underground. I doubt this was a hobby of his.
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This is David's sister and I've only just in the last few days begun reading all of the blogging as I was never interested before. I just want to say this and dispel any rumors, David died of natural causes, he was always about the truth so as much as there was controversy, he would not want any falsehoods spread around. He would want to be remembered for what he tried to accomplish, whether you agreed with him or not, he just wanted everyone to be fair to each other.
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May I ask you questions about his death?
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Thank You Karen.
That may bring peace to those of us who can accept it. I hope you can understand the shock this has caused us considering the context. I hope that our expressed concerns have not brought you any undue stress. We have all just been concerned because we appreciated Dave and his efforts. Some of us very much so. To some of us he seemed heroic, and his passing is very sorrowful.
Please take away from here Joy in knowing that your brother was a beacon of uncomprimising care for others as it appears to be was the case in his life in Brooklyn.
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Why I typed "Brooklyn" I'll never know. I've been very sick and as I've written elsewhere, everything I think lately has been coming out kinda off. My wife feels like she is babysitting (when she's home) because I can't seem to do anything right on. Sorry about that!
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Hi Karen,
I'm very sorry for your loss. My mom died a few years ago. It hurts. She was older than Dave but still relatively young.
Thank you for sharing this information.
Please have someone copy this website and the data from his computer. He seems to have uncovered a story of major importance. If you know journalists/reporters you can trust, please have them vet through it.
My guess was natural causes. Yet, because of the painful things others have written about him, many have been concerned that the UGOG people and DailyKos admins may have exacerbated pre-existing health conditions.
I only met Dave on this blog a few weeks ago. After sharing my story of being unfairly chased off DailyKos by the same people, he said exactly what you have. That in a democracy, we should all have the right to participate.
Take care.
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Thank you for your kind words. David died of a heart attack. While stress doesn't help, no one can be blamed...it is just one of those unfair things in life that we can't seem to understand.
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When was his heart attack, what day?
Was he with people when it happened, was he alone?
I'm not looking for clues or anything like that.
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Please, Noone, let Karen be.
She acknowledged awareness of our concerns that Dave was being hurt by Michael Fingerit, Lloyd Lachow, and Michael Bouldin to name a few. She has acknowledged our concerns that DailyKos allowed this to persist and appear to have sanctioned it.
You have to let the family grieve. Nothing personal, but this is no time to play internet detective, not here anyway.
I sent my concerns to a few journalists. Please leave Dave's family in peace. We all need to.
I will not post again on this forum. Dave did great work, and we just have to believe that the info he accumulated will be vetted, and justice will be served.
There was no foul play. To continue with that train of thought here will cause more pain. Dave would not want us going this route. If you are concerned, please call the police and FBI yourself.
God bless Dave, Karen, and the whole Weintraub family.
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I was not playing "internet detective".
I stated that I was not looking for clues.
You jumped to conclusions, wrong conclusions.
"There was no foul play. To continue with that train of thought here will cause more pain."
I was not going that way.
I was asking about Dave.
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Dave was my friend and I have been missing him even before I heard about his death. This needs to be out there all over the place. He was a hero and fought the good fight for free speech. as I have said at free zone today if I were Dave's family I would sue dailykos for causing his death. No one with a heart condition would have had to fight alone for all of us. I think I was the only one who supported him out loud 200% and always. I knew his postings at kos as I read after they did the same thing to me. I watched the group corner him and I watched him fight courageously, as I did. I have nothing but admiration for your son and brother. You must be very proud of him. I am pasting my cmment elsewhere here for you.
in St. charles because of evil things said to her MYSpace page or something like that. Went to a fuckin trial in St. Charles and the woman was guilty.
There are nazi types at dkos, the administrators are in on it, kos does nothing, and Dave all alone brought them to their knees.
A good prosecutor who is ambitious can do what he wants with the data. His persecutors (and the persecutors of many others at kos) were not stopped by kos altho he received emails about this abuse for two years. If I were Dave's father I would bring a libel suit against kos and the others.
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Come back, Dave! We need you!
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Dave busted up a major astroturfing unit. He took it to the admins who did nothing about it. Michael Fingerit, Lachow, and Bouldin are a few of the big names even a newbie can see were involved.
I went to every admin and complained that Fingerit, Alexandrovna, and many others were breaking rules against me. I asked them to check out every single one of my posts that became hidden, how the diary tag system was being abused, and I got banned in return.
Kos is corrupt to the core. I have been cyberstalked elsewhere just like Dave was. This stuff continues to go on because reporters no longer do their jobs and the things people like myself and Dave unover is kind of esoteric. But the internet is real life, and no one deserves to be mentally abused
The attacks do hurt. They are psychological operations in a way. They are akin to what cointelpro was about. Scum like like this infiltrate or establish groups in order to stymie positive, social movement. Dave figured it out. I figured it out. Many have figured it out. But then the astroturfers simply respond, "Yeah, you figured it out, but no one is listening and no one cares."
They do try to drive people into depression. They do try to marginalise those who do not cede to their ideological commands. They especially go after folks like Dave who start to piece together such perversions of democratic processes on the internet.
An autopsy should be done, and these people should be sued.
Fingerit was doing the same thing at Democratic Underground. When are good people going to wake up and fight back?
Dave is a hero. I would be surprised if foul play was involved. Yet, on the other hand, stress can adversely affect our healths. And looking at the comments at UGOG, I would not be surprised if those people would commit acts of violence. Though I am not trying to spin a conspiracy theory of murder. But Dave did prove a conspiracy has existed, and that Kos allowed it to operate. At a minimum, these astroturfers including lawyers and political consultants caused Dave a lot of stress.
To Dave's family, please at some point come up with a plan to get Dave's story out. My mom died a few years ago. I know what you are going through. She was older than Dave, but she was still relatively young. I'm sorry Dave died so young. But please find a way to get to his data and get it to intrepid reporters, journalists, and attorneys. Please consider suing these people.
It is not tinfoil to say that the internet is rigged. Dave supplied proof.
Now the disingenuous are trying to spin this a certain way, that Dave was no different than these cretins, that this was some kind of "meta" blog war.
No, not at all. Dave was a hero. Dave had gravitas that I don't because of some of the topics I have looked into. When people with gravitas are smeared like this, not just a "chemmie" like me, you have to realise that the internet is no better than the mass media we all can agree on has let down democracy.
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